
Episode 219
The Lab-Leak Hypothesis & the Origin of Covid-19 | Alina Chan & Matt Ridley

Episode 219
Matt Ridley & Alina Chan
The Lab-Leak Hypothesis & the Origin of Covid-19 | Alina Chan & Matt Ridley
summary
In Episode 219 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Matt Ridley and Alina Chan. Alina is a Canadian molecular biologist specializing in gene therapy and cell engineering at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard and Matt is a British science journalist who has written countless bestselling books on subjects ranging from evolution to innovation, to genomic science.
They are the co-authors of an electrifying new book titled “Viral” that grapples with the mystery of how Covid-19, a virus whose closest known relatives live in bats residing in subtropical southern China, somehow managed to begin spreading among people more than 1,500 kilometers away in the city of Wuhan, while leaving none of the expected traces that such outbreaks usually create. Instead, nearly two years into this pandemic we’re presented with a trail of evidence that increasingly points towards the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the so-called “Lab Leak Hypothesis” as the most plausible source of the outbreak.
This is a critically important conversation to be having and Matt and Alina have made an invaluable contribution to it by working tirelessly and at great risk to themselves and to their careers in order to bring clarity to many of the facts and much of the evidence in support of the lab leak hypothesis—a theory that was consistently attacked and discredited by various actors, both wittingly and unwittingly, in the earliest days of the pandemic.
We normally release the second half of our episodes for our subscribers only, but because of how important this conversation is and because of how much Matt and Alina have sacrificed in order to educate us all on the origins of Covid-19, we thought it was only right to do as much as we can to share as much of their work as possible.
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Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas
Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou
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Episode Recorded on 11/09/2021
bio
Alina Chan is a co-author of the book, VIRAL: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19, and a researcher with a background in medical genetics, synthetic biology, and vector engineering. At the Broad Institute of MIT & Harvard, Dr. Chan is currently creating next-generation vectors for human gene therapy. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Dr. Chan began to investigate problems relevant to finding the origins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and in parallel spearheaded the development of the COVID-19 CoV Genetics (covidcg.org) browser for scientists worldwide to rapidly track virus lineages and mutations by locations and date ranges of interest.
Matt Ridley is the co-author, with Alina Chan, of the upcoming book Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19, available November 16th. He is also the author of The Red Queen, Genome, The Rational Optimist, How Innovation Works, and other books related to science and human progress, which combined have sold over a million copies. He is also a biologist, newspaper columnist, and a member of the House of Lords in the United Kingdom.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Hunc vos beatum; Quid ergo aliud intellegetur nisi uti ne quae pars naturae neglegatur? Non igitur potestis voluptate omnia dirigentes aut tueri aut retinere virtutem. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Ut proverbia non nulla veriora sint quam vestra dogmata. Hinc ceteri particulas arripere conati suam quisque videro voluit afferre sententiam. Tum Torquatus: Prorsus, inquit, assentior;
Quod autem ratione actum est, id officium appellamus. Quis suae urbis conservatorem Codrum, quis Erechthei filias non maxime laudat? Hi curatione adhibita levantur in dies, valet alter plus cotidie, alter videt. Nam nec vir bonus ac iustus haberi debet qui, ne malum habeat, abstinet se ab iniuria. Quid ad utilitatem tantae pecuniae? Graecum enim hunc versum nostis omnes-: Suavis laborum est praeteritorum memoria.
Hoc ille tuus non vult omnibusque ex rebus voluptatem quasi mercedem exigit. Qua tu etiam inprudens utebare non numquam. Haec bene dicuntur, nec ego repugno, sed inter sese ipsa pugnant. Ergo id est convenienter naturae vivere, a natura discedere. Virtutis, magnitudinis animi, patientiae, fortitudinis fomentis dolor mitigari solet. Sit sane ista voluptas.
Qua tu etiam inprudens utebare non numquam. Virtutibus igitur rectissime mihi videris et ad consuetudinem nostrae orationis vitia posuisse contraria. Hoc loco tenere se Triarius non potuit. De malis autem et bonis ab iis animalibus, quae nondum depravata sint, ait optime iudicari. Qui non moveatur et offensione turpitudinis et comprobatione honestatis? Non modo carum sibi quemque, verum etiam vehementer carum esse? Non enim iam stirpis bonum quaeret, sed animalis. De hominibus dici non necesse est.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Quid loquor de nobis, qui ad laudem et ad decus nati, suscepti, instituti sumus? De ingenio eius in his disputationibus, non de moribus quaeritur. At cum de plurimis eadem dicit, tum certe de maximis. Ita est quoddam commune officium sapientis et insipientis, ex quo efficitur versari in iis, quae media dicamus. Duo enim genera quae erant, fecit tria. An vero displicuit ea, quae tributa est animi virtutibus tanta praestantia?
Te autem hortamur omnes, currentem quidem, ut spero, ut eos, quos novisse vis, imitari etiam velis. Esse enim quam vellet iniquus iustus poterat inpune. Bona autem corporis huic sunt, quod posterius posui, similiora. Scaevola tribunus plebis ferret ad plebem vellentne de ea re quaeri. At enim hic etiam dolore. Hoc est vim afferre, Torquate, sensibus, extorquere ex animis cognitiones verborum, quibus inbuti sumus.
Putabam equidem satis, inquit, me dixisse. Quo tandem modo? Scaevola tribunus plebis ferret ad plebem vellentne de ea re quaeri. Sin laboramus, quis est, qui alienae modum statuat industriae? Quis est tam dissimile homini. Hic ego: Pomponius quidem, inquam, noster iocari videtur, et fortasse suo iure. Et hunc idem dico, inquieta sed ad virtutes et ad vitia nihil interesse.
Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Ita fit cum gravior, tum etiam splendidior oratio. Homines optimi non intellegunt totam rationem everti, si ita res se habeat. Nihilo beatiorem esse Metellum quam Regulum. Ego vero volo in virtute vim esse quam maximam; Si mala non sunt, iacet omnis ratio Peripateticorum. Varietates autem iniurasque fortunae facile veteres philosophorum praeceptis instituta vita superabat. Quasi ego id curem, quid ille aiat aut neget. Occultum facinus esse potuerit, gaudebit; Hi autem ponunt illi quidem prima naturae, sed ea seiungunt a finibus et a summa bonorum;
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aut haec tibi, Torquate, sunt vituperanda aut patrocinium voluptatis repudiandum. Stulti autem malorum memoria torquentur, sapientes bona praeterita grata recordatione renovata delectant. Haec quo modo conveniant, non sane intellego. Sed tamen omne, quod de re bona dilucide dicitur, mihi praeclare dici videtur. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Quam tu ponis in verbis, ego positam in re putabam. An vero, inquit, quisquam potest probare, quod perceptfum, quod. Quicquid enim a sapientia proficiscitur, id continuo debet expletum esse omnibus suis partibus;
At tu eadem ista dic in iudicio aut, si coronam times, dic in senatu. Hoc non est positum in nostra actione. Ego vero volo in virtute vim esse quam maximam; Unum nescio, quo modo possit, si luxuriosus sit, finitas cupiditates habere. Sic enim maiores nostri labores non fugiendos tristissimo tamen verbo aerumnas etiam in deo nominaverunt. Num igitur eum postea censes anxio animo aut sollicito fuisse? Sed quoniam et advesperascit et mihi ad villam revertendum est, nunc quidem hactenus; Sit, inquam, tam facilis, quam vultis, comparatio voluptatis, quid de dolore dicemus?
Videamus animi partes, quarum est conspectus illustrior; Contemnit enim disserendi elegantiam, confuse loquitur. Uterque enim summo bono fruitur, id est voluptate. Et harum quidem rerum facilis est et expedita distinctio. Hic Speusippus, hic Xenocrates, hic eius auditor Polemo, cuius illa ipsa sessio fuit, quam videmus. Ab his oratores, ab his imperatores ac rerum publicarum principes extiterunt. Quis non odit sordidos, vanos, leves, futtiles? Nec lapathi suavitatem acupenseri Galloni Laelius anteponebat, sed suavitatem ipsam neglegebat; Quarum cum una sit, qua mores conformari putantur, differo eam partem, quae quasi stirps ets huius quaestionis. Non est ista, inquam, Piso, magna dissensio. Experiamur igitur, inquit, etsi habet haec Stoicorum ratio difficilius quiddam et obscurius.
Bona autem corporis huic sunt, quod posterius posui, similiora. Tamen aberramus a proposito, et, ne longius, prorsus, inquam, Piso, si ista mala sunt, placet. Nihilne te delectat umquam -video, quicum loquar-, te igitur, Torquate, ipsum per se nihil delectat? Atque hoc loco similitudines eas, quibus illi uti solent, dissimillimas proferebas. Sed virtutem ipsam inchoavit, nihil amplius.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Haec igitur Epicuri non probo, inquam. Quid, quod res alia tota est? Illa videamus, quae a te de amicitia dicta sunt. Theophrastus mediocriterne delectat, cum tractat locos ab Aristotele ante tractatos? Hoc ille tuus non vult omnibusque ex rebus voluptatem quasi mercedem exigit. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Re mihi non aeque satisfacit, et quidem locis pluribus. Tum ille timide vel potius verecunde: Facio, inquit. Non minor, inquit, voluptas percipitur ex vilissimis rebus quam ex pretiosissimis.
Idemne, quod iucunde? Itaque in rebus minime obscuris non multus est apud eos disserendi labor. Scripta sane et multa et polita, sed nescio quo pacto auctoritatem oratio non habet. Quae si potest singula consolando levare, universa quo modo sustinebit? Quid de Platone aut de Democrito loquar? Sed utrum hortandus es nobis, Luci, inquit, an etiam tua sponte propensus es? Inde sermone vario sex illa a Dipylo stadia confecimus. Quamquam te quidem video minime esse deterritum. Ita multo sanguine profuso in laetitia et in victoria est mortuus.
Ne tum quidem te respicies et cogitabis sibi quemque natum esse et suis voluptatibus? Ergo hoc quidem apparet, nos ad agendum esse natos. Tubulo putas dicere? Aperiendum est igitur, quid sit voluptas;
Nec hoc ille non vidit, sed verborum magnificentia est et gloria delectatus. Quae qui non vident, nihil umquam magnum ac cognitione dignum amaverunt. Qui est in parvis malis. Mihi enim erit isdem istis fortasse iam utendum. Huic mori optimum esse propter desperationem sapientiae, illi propter spem vivere. Huius ego nunc auctoritatem sequens idem faciam. Atque ita re simpliciter primo collocata reliqua subtilius persequentes corporis bona facilem quandam rationem habere censebant; In his igitur partibus duabus nihil erat, quod Zeno commutare gestiret. Sed tamen intellego quid velit. Ut in geometria, prima si dederis, danda sunt omnia. Etsi ea quidem, quae adhuc dixisti, quamvis ad aetatem recte isto modo dicerentur. Tum, Quintus et Pomponius cum idem se velle dixissent, Piso exorsus est.