Episode 82
Nicholas Christakis on the Evolutionary Origins of Ethics, Morality, and a Good Society
Episode 82
Nicholas Christakis
Nicholas Christakis on the Evolutionary Origins of Ethics, Morality, and a Good Society
summary
In this week’s episode of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Dr. Nicholas Christakis about the evolutionary origins of ethics, morality, and the good society.
A renowned sociologist and physician, Dr. Christakis was named to Time Magazine’s 2009 list of the 100 most influential people in the world. He is known for his research on social networks and on the socioeconomic, biosocial, and evolutionary determinants of behavior, health, and longevity. He directs the Human Nature Lab and is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science, as well as the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University.
Listeners to this show will recall our prior episode with social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, where we discussed a 2015 incident at Yale, involving Dr. Christakis, who was accosted and berated by a horde of belligerent students for approximately two hours over the contents of an email sent by his wife, an esteemed childhood educator, in what was one of the earliest examples of a bizarre phenomenon of public shaming and moral outrage that has overtaken college campuses in recent years.
Though Demetri and Nicholas do discuss that experience, as well as this larger move to moderate or in some cases shut down speech entirely, the episode focuses on the professor’s book, which is an exploration of the evolutionary origins of a good society. Their conversation explores the biological foundations of culture-making and the features that define the social landscape that we have evolved to create. Dr. Christakis highlights some of the profound similarities that can be seen, not just cross-culturally, but across time and space. He shares research into what is known about some of the earliest groups of hunter-gatherers, impromptu societies formed by the survivors of shipwrecks, as well as the deliberately constructed communes of 19th-century transcendentalists.
Nicholas Christakis also explains the biological origins of romantic love, examines polyamorous cultures like those of the Na people of the Himalayas, and compares human societies with those of chimpanzees, elephants, and whales.
This is an episode full of fascinating stories, statistics, and scientific research that weave together insights from the fields of evolutionary psychology, moral philosophy, and genetics. It is a conversation that cuts right to the heart of society’s resurgent interest in human origins, social norms, and moral values.
Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas
Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou
Join the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @hiddenforcespod
bio
Nicholas A. Christakis, MD, Ph.D., MPH, is a social scientist and physician at Yale University who conducts research in the fields of network science, biosocial science, and behavior genetics. His current work focuses on how human biology and health affect, and are affected by, social interactions and social networks. He directs the Human Nature Lab and is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science. He is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University, appointed in the Departments of Sociology; Medicine; Ecology and Evolutionary Biology; Biomedical Engineering; and the School of Management.
Dr. Christakis received his BS from Yale in 1984, his MD from Harvard Medical School and his MPH from the Harvard School of Public Health in 1989, and his Ph.D. from the University of Pennsylvania in 1995. He was elected to the National Academy of Medicine in 2006; the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 2010; and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2017.
In 2009, Christakis was named by Time magazine to their annual list of the 100 most influential people in the world. In 2009 and in 2010, he was listed by Foreign Policy magazine in their annual list of Top 100 Global Thinkers.
Dr. Christakis began his career at the University of Chicago in 1995, where he was appointed as a Professor in the Departments of Sociology and Medicine. He moved his lab to Harvard University in 2001, where he was again appointed as a Professor in the Departments of Sociology and Medicine. While at Harvard, he also served as the Master of Pforzheimer House at Harvard College. In 2013, he moved his lab to Yale University.
One body of work in his lab focuses on how health and health behavior in one person can influence analogous outcomes in a person’s social network. This work involves the application of statistical and mathematical models to understand the dynamics of diverse phenomena in longitudinally evolving networks. A related body of work uses experiments to examine the spread of altruism, emotions, and health behaviors along network connections online and offline, including with large-scale field trials in the developing world directed at improving public health (e.g., in Honduras and India). His lab has also examined the genetic and evolutionary determinants of social network structure, showing that social interactions have shaped our genome, with related projects that have mapped networks of populations in Tanzania and Sudan who live as all humans did 10,000 years ago. His most recent work has used artificial intelligence (AI) agents (“bots”) to affect social processes online.
His laboratory also actively develops software and data tools to study social phenomena and releases these resources publicly. Breadboard allows scientists to conduct online experiments accurately and efficiently. Trellis allows scientists to map social networks in diverse, demanding settings around the world. Christakis is active in teaching, both in the classroom and in the lab. He has mentored students and postdocs from diverse fields, ranging across sociology, anthropology, political science, economics, applied math, physics, computational biology, biomedicine, public health, and other fields.
Dr. Christakis is the author of over 200 articles and several books. His influential book, Connected: The Surprising Power of Our Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives, documented how social networks affect our lives and was translated into twenty foreign languages. His most recent book, Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society, was published in March 2019 and is slated to appear in German, Chinese, Dutch, and Greek, and other languages.
Dr. Christakis’ past work was focused on topics related to end-of-life care, such as hospice care, widowhood, and caregiver burden, ICU decision-making, and the role of prognostication in medicine (about which he has written three books, including clinical textbooks).
Dr. Christakis has advised startups and established corporations, such as Whoop, Ditto Labs, Gallup, Virgin, and MasterCard. A company called Activate Networks was spun out from his lab in 2010.
transcript
content locked
or Subscribe to Access Premium Content
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Hoc non est positum in nostra actione. Etenim semper illud extra est, quod arte comprehenditur. Ut in geometria, prima si dederis, danda sunt omnia. Tu autem, si tibi illa probabantur, cur non propriis verbis ea tenebas? Illud dico, ea, quae dicat, praeclare inter se cohaerere. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. An vero displicuit ea, quae tributa est animi virtutibus tanta praestantia? Quicquid porro animo cernimus, id omne oritur a sensibus;
Quis istud possit, inquit, negare? Teneo, inquit, finem illi videri nihil dolere. Ad quorum et cognitionem et usum iam corroborati natura ipsa praeeunte deducimur. Ego vero isti, inquam, permitto. Aliter enim explicari, quod quaeritur, non potest. Aliter enim nosmet ipsos nosse non possumus. Et certamen honestum et disputatio splendida! omnis est enim de virtutis dignitate contentio. Satis est ad hoc responsum. Etenim semper illud extra est, quod arte comprehenditur. Ostendit pedes et pectus.
Oculorum, inquit Plato, est in nobis sensus acerrimus, quibus sapientiam non cernimus. Teneo, inquit, finem illi videri nihil dolere. Restinguet citius, si ardentem acceperit. Qui autem de summo bono dissentit de tota philosophiae ratione dissentit. Vestri haec verecundius, illi fortasse constantius. Comprehensum, quod cognitum non habet? Non pugnem cum homine, cur tantum habeat in natura boni; Non est enim vitium in oratione solum, sed etiam in moribus. Restinguet citius, si ardentem acceperit.
Habent enim et bene longam et satis litigiosam disputationem. Quid est, quod ab ea absolvi et perfici debeat? Est autem etiam actio quaedam corporis, quae motus et status naturae congruentis tenet; Non est igitur summum malum dolor. Quod praeceptum quia maius erat, quam ut ab homine videretur, idcirco assignatum est deo. Omnium enim rerum principia parva sunt, sed suis progressionibus usa augentur nec sine causa; Est enim effectrix multarum et magnarum voluptatum. Quod non faceret, si in voluptate summum bonum poneret. Facit igitur Lucius noster prudenter, qui audire de summo bono potissimum velit; Quod idem cum vestri faciant, non satis magnam tribuunt inventoribus gratiam. Haec quo modo conveniant, non sane intellego.
Full Episode
content locked
or Subscribe to Access Premium Content
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sumenda potius quam expetenda. Tum Piso: Atqui, Cicero, inquit, ista studia, si ad imitandos summos viros spectant, ingeniosorum sunt; Expectoque quid ad id, quod quaerebam, respondeas. Si longus, levis dictata sunt. Octavio fuit, cum illam severitatem in eo filio adhibuit, quem in adoptionem D. Duo Reges: constructio interrete.
Cui Tubuli nomen odio non est? Ergo adhuc, quantum equidem intellego, causa non videtur fuisse mutandi nominis. Nihil enim iam habes, quod ad corpus referas; Haec bene dicuntur, nec ego repugno, sed inter sese ipsa pugnant. Aliter homines, aliter philosophos loqui putas oportere? Explanetur igitur. Videamus animi partes, quarum est conspectus illustrior; Atque hoc loco similitudines eas, quibus illi uti solent, dissimillimas proferebas. Virtutibus igitur rectissime mihi videris et ad consuetudinem nostrae orationis vitia posuisse contraria.
Ergo illi intellegunt quid Epicurus dicat, ego non intellego? Sin dicit obscurari quaedam nec apparere, quia valde parva sint, nos quoque concedimus; Ita multo sanguine profuso in laetitia et in victoria est mortuus. Primum quid tu dicis breve? Atque haec coniunctio confusioque virtutum tamen a philosophis ratione quadam distinguitur. Quo modo autem optimum, si bonum praeterea nullum est?
Qui non moveatur et offensione turpitudinis et comprobatione honestatis? Nam constitui virtus nullo modo potesti nisi ea, quae sunt prima naturae, ut ad summam pertinentia tenebit. Quid de Platone aut de Democrito loquar? Quare, quoniam de primis naturae commodis satis dietum est nunc de maioribus consequentibusque videamus. Id enim volumus, id contendimus, ut officii fructus sit ipsum officium. Sin tantum modo ad indicia veteris memoriae cognoscenda, curiosorum.
intelligence report
content locked
or Subscribe to Access Premium Content
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Odium autem et invidiam facile vitabis. Est enim effectrix multarum et magnarum voluptatum. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Negat enim summo bono afferre incrementum diem. Sed quid minus probandum quam esse aliquem beatum nec satis beatum? Quare conare, quaeso. Haec dicuntur inconstantissime. Nam si +omnino nos+ neglegemus, in Aristonea vitia incidemus et peccata obliviscemurque quae virtuti ipsi principia dederimus;
Habent enim et bene longam et satis litigiosam disputationem. Ego quoque, inquit, didicerim libentius si quid attuleris, quam te reprehenderim. Videamus animi partes, quarum est conspectus illustrior; Introduci enim virtus nullo modo potest, nisi omnia, quae leget quaeque reiciet, unam referentur ad summam. An me, inquam, nisi te audire vellem, censes haec dicturum fuisse? Ita multa dicunt, quae vix intellegam. Et nunc quidem quod eam tuetur, ut de vite potissimum loquar, est id extrinsecus;
Hominum non spinas vellentium, ut Stoici, nec ossa nudantium, sed eorum, qui grandia ornate vellent, enucleate minora dicere. Tertium autem omnibus aut maximis rebus iis, quae secundum naturam sint, fruentem vivere. Tu vero, inquam, ducas licet, si sequetur; Mihi quidem Antiochum, quem audis, satis belle videris attendere. Non igitur bene. Illa tamen simplicia, vestra versuta. Qua ex cognitione facilior facta est investigatio rerum occultissimarum. Sic vester sapiens magno aliquo emolumento commotus cicuta, si opus erit, dimicabit.
Praeterea sublata cognitione et scientia tollitur omnis ratio et vitae degendae et rerum gerendarum. Ita relinquet duas, de quibus etiam atque etiam consideret. Sit enim idem caecus, debilis. Dicam, inquam, et quidem discendi causa magis, quam quo te aut Epicurum reprehensum velim.
related episodes
Video
content locked
or Subscribe to Access Premium Content
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sint modo partes vitae beatae. Eadem nunc mea adversum te oratio est. Quippe: habes enim a rhetoribus; Satisne ergo pudori consulat, si quis sine teste libidini pareat? Tum Piso: Quoniam igitur aliquid omnes, quid Lucius noster? Themistocles quidem, cum ei Simonides an quis alius artem memoriae polliceretur, Oblivionis, inquit, mallem. Duo Reges: constructio interrete.
Quae animi affectio suum cuique tribuens atque hanc, quam dico. Te enim iudicem aequum puto, modo quae dicat ille bene noris. Duarum enim vitarum nobis erunt instituta capienda. Illa tamen simplicia, vestra versuta.
Apparet statim, quae sint officia, quae actiones. Sed tempus est, si videtur, et recta quidem ad me. Nullus est igitur cuiusquam dies natalis. Ex eorum enim scriptis et institutis cum omnis doctrina liberalis, omnis historia. Legimus tamen Diogenem, Antipatrum, Mnesarchum, Panaetium, multos alios in primisque familiarem nostrum Posidonium. Nec vero alia sunt quaerenda contra Carneadeam illam sententiam. At iam decimum annum in spelunca iacet. Cur, nisi quod turpis oratio est? Sed utrum hortandus es nobis, Luci, inquit, an etiam tua sponte propensus es? Ex ea difficultate illae fallaciloquae, ut ait Accius, malitiae natae sunt.
Quo plebiscito decreta a senatu est consuli quaestio Cn. An eiusdem modi? Is es profecto tu. Potius inflammat, ut coercendi magis quam dedocendi esse videantur. Semper enim ita adsumit aliquid, ut ea, quae prima dederit, non deserat. Quae cum praeponunt, ut sit aliqua rerum selectio, naturam videntur sequi;