Episode 82
Nicholas Christakis on the Evolutionary Origins of Ethics, Morality, and a Good Society
Episode 82
Nicholas Christakis
Nicholas Christakis on the Evolutionary Origins of Ethics, Morality, and a Good Society
summary
In this week’s episode of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Dr. Nicholas Christakis about the evolutionary origins of ethics, morality, and the good society.
A renowned sociologist and physician, Dr. Christakis was named to Time Magazine’s 2009 list of the 100 most influential people in the world. He is known for his research on social networks and on the socioeconomic, biosocial, and evolutionary determinants of behavior, health, and longevity. He directs the Human Nature Lab and is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science, as well as the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University.
Listeners to this show will recall our prior episode with social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, where we discussed a 2015 incident at Yale, involving Dr. Christakis, who was accosted and berated by a horde of belligerent students for approximately two hours over the contents of an email sent by his wife, an esteemed childhood educator, in what was one of the earliest examples of a bizarre phenomenon of public shaming and moral outrage that has overtaken college campuses in recent years.
Though Demetri and Nicholas do discuss that experience, as well as this larger move to moderate or in some cases shut down speech entirely, the episode focuses on the professor’s book, which is an exploration of the evolutionary origins of a good society. Their conversation explores the biological foundations of culture-making and the features that define the social landscape that we have evolved to create. Dr. Christakis highlights some of the profound similarities that can be seen, not just cross-culturally, but across time and space. He shares research into what is known about some of the earliest groups of hunter-gatherers, impromptu societies formed by the survivors of shipwrecks, as well as the deliberately constructed communes of 19th-century transcendentalists.
Nicholas Christakis also explains the biological origins of romantic love, examines polyamorous cultures like those of the Na people of the Himalayas, and compares human societies with those of chimpanzees, elephants, and whales.
This is an episode full of fascinating stories, statistics, and scientific research that weave together insights from the fields of evolutionary psychology, moral philosophy, and genetics. It is a conversation that cuts right to the heart of society’s resurgent interest in human origins, social norms, and moral values.
Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas
Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou
Join the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @hiddenforcespod
bio
Nicholas A. Christakis, MD, Ph.D., MPH, is a social scientist and physician at Yale University who conducts research in the fields of network science, biosocial science, and behavior genetics. His current work focuses on how human biology and health affect, and are affected by, social interactions and social networks. He directs the Human Nature Lab and is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science. He is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University, appointed in the Departments of Sociology; Medicine; Ecology and Evolutionary Biology; Biomedical Engineering; and the School of Management.
Dr. Christakis received his BS from Yale in 1984, his MD from Harvard Medical School and his MPH from the Harvard School of Public Health in 1989, and his Ph.D. from the University of Pennsylvania in 1995. He was elected to the National Academy of Medicine in 2006; the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 2010; and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2017.
In 2009, Christakis was named by Time magazine to their annual list of the 100 most influential people in the world. In 2009 and in 2010, he was listed by Foreign Policy magazine in their annual list of Top 100 Global Thinkers.
Dr. Christakis began his career at the University of Chicago in 1995, where he was appointed as a Professor in the Departments of Sociology and Medicine. He moved his lab to Harvard University in 2001, where he was again appointed as a Professor in the Departments of Sociology and Medicine. While at Harvard, he also served as the Master of Pforzheimer House at Harvard College. In 2013, he moved his lab to Yale University.
One body of work in his lab focuses on how health and health behavior in one person can influence analogous outcomes in a person’s social network. This work involves the application of statistical and mathematical models to understand the dynamics of diverse phenomena in longitudinally evolving networks. A related body of work uses experiments to examine the spread of altruism, emotions, and health behaviors along network connections online and offline, including with large-scale field trials in the developing world directed at improving public health (e.g., in Honduras and India). His lab has also examined the genetic and evolutionary determinants of social network structure, showing that social interactions have shaped our genome, with related projects that have mapped networks of populations in Tanzania and Sudan who live as all humans did 10,000 years ago. His most recent work has used artificial intelligence (AI) agents (“bots”) to affect social processes online.
His laboratory also actively develops software and data tools to study social phenomena and releases these resources publicly. Breadboard allows scientists to conduct online experiments accurately and efficiently. Trellis allows scientists to map social networks in diverse, demanding settings around the world. Christakis is active in teaching, both in the classroom and in the lab. He has mentored students and postdocs from diverse fields, ranging across sociology, anthropology, political science, economics, applied math, physics, computational biology, biomedicine, public health, and other fields.
Dr. Christakis is the author of over 200 articles and several books. His influential book, Connected: The Surprising Power of Our Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives, documented how social networks affect our lives and was translated into twenty foreign languages. His most recent book, Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society, was published in March 2019 and is slated to appear in German, Chinese, Dutch, and Greek, and other languages.
Dr. Christakis’ past work was focused on topics related to end-of-life care, such as hospice care, widowhood, and caregiver burden, ICU decision-making, and the role of prognostication in medicine (about which he has written three books, including clinical textbooks).
Dr. Christakis has advised startups and established corporations, such as Whoop, Ditto Labs, Gallup, Virgin, and MasterCard. A company called Activate Networks was spun out from his lab in 2010.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. At, si voluptas esset bonum, desideraret. Quae si potest singula consolando levare, universa quo modo sustinebit? Philosophi autem in suis lectulis plerumque moriuntur. Teneo, inquit, finem illi videri nihil dolere. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Et quidem Arcesilas tuus, etsi fuit in disserendo pertinacior, tamen noster fuit; Sint ista Graecorum;
Quid igitur, inquit, eos responsuros putas? Quare, quoniam de primis naturae commodis satis dietum est nunc de maioribus consequentibusque videamus. Laelius clamores sofòw ille so lebat Edere compellans gumias ex ordine nostros. Ab his oratores, ab his imperatores ac rerum publicarum principes extiterunt. Faceres tu quidem, Torquate, haec omnia; Cum autem venissemus in Academiae non sine causa nobilitata spatia, solitudo erat ea, quam volueramus. Cur fortior sit, si illud, quod tute concedis, asperum et vix ferendum putabit? Praeterea sublata cognitione et scientia tollitur omnis ratio et vitae degendae et rerum gerendarum. Etsi ea quidem, quae adhuc dixisti, quamvis ad aetatem recte isto modo dicerentur.
Hoc loco discipulos quaerere videtur, ut, qui asoti esse velint, philosophi ante fiant. Ut in voluptate sit, qui epuletur, in dolore, qui torqueatur. Haec para/doca illi, nos admirabilia dicamus. Facete M. Quicquid enim a sapientia proficiscitur, id continuo debet expletum esse omnibus suis partibus; Cave putes quicquam esse verius. Si de re disceptari oportet, nulla mihi tecum, Cato, potest esse dissensio. Istam voluptatem perpetuam quis potest praestare sapienti?
Cum autem negant ea quicquam ad beatam vitam pertinere, rursus naturam relinquunt. Esse enim quam vellet iniquus iustus poterat inpune. Bona autem corporis huic sunt, quod posterius posui, similiora. Consequentia exquirere, quoad sit id, quod volumus, effectum. Quo modo autem optimum, si bonum praeterea nullum est? Sic enim maiores nostri labores non fugiendos tristissimo tamen verbo aerumnas etiam in deo nominaverunt. Illum mallem levares, quo optimum atque humanissimum virum, Cn. Addidisti ad extremum etiam indoctum fuisse. Ut non sine causa ex iis memoriae ducta sit disciplina. Quaesita enim virtus est, non quae relinqueret naturam, sed quae tueretur.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Innumerabilia dici possunt in hanc sententiam, sed non necesse est. Ex rebus enim timiditas, non ex vocabulis nascitur. Hoc est non dividere, sed frangere. Pauca mutat vel plura sane; Duo Reges: constructio interrete.
Nondum autem explanatum satis, erat, quid maxime natura vellet. Nam his libris eum malo quam reliquo ornatu villae delectari. Summum ením bonum exposuit vacuitatem doloris; Si enim ad populum me vocas, eum. Quid, cum fictas fabulas, e quibus utilitas nulla elici potest, cum voluptate legimus? Quid ergo attinet gloriose loqui, nisi constanter loquare? Quicquid porro animo cernimus, id omne oritur a sensibus;
Quod autem principium officii quaerunt, melius quam Pyrrho; Paupertas si malum est, mendicus beatus esse nemo potest, quamvis sit sapiens. Illis videtur, qui illud non dubitant bonum dicere -; Ita relinquet duas, de quibus etiam atque etiam consideret. Dempta enim aeternitate nihilo beatior Iuppiter quam Epicurus; Qui autem esse poteris, nisi te amor ipse ceperit? Indicant pueri, in quibus ut in speculis natura cernitur. Quid ait Aristoteles reliquique Platonis alumni? Vidit Homerus probari fabulam non posse, si cantiunculis tantus irretitus vir teneretur; Quod quidem iam fit etiam in Academia.
Nullus est igitur cuiusquam dies natalis. Nullum inveniri verbum potest quod magis idem declaret Latine, quod Graece, quam declarat voluptas. An hoc usque quaque, aliter in vita? Indicant pueri, in quibus ut in speculis natura cernitur. Sed vobis voluptatum perceptarum recordatio vitam beatam facit, et quidem corpore perceptarum. Quicquid enim a sapientia proficiscitur, id continuo debet expletum esse omnibus suis partibus; Hinc ceteri particulas arripere conati suam quisque videro voluit afferre sententiam. Ita credo. Erat enim Polemonis. Expressa vero in iis aetatibus, quae iam confirmatae sunt.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Laelius clamores sofòw ille so lebat Edere compellans gumias ex ordine nostros. Primum in nostrane potestate est, quid meminerimus? Quam ob rem tandem, inquit, non satisfacit? Quo modo autem optimum, si bonum praeterea nullum est? Mihi, inquam, qui te id ipsum rogavi?
Quia, si mala sunt, is, qui erit in iis, beatus non erit. Quod autem magnum dolorem brevem, longinquum levem esse dicitis, id non intellego quale sit. Philosophi autem in suis lectulis plerumque moriuntur. Quia dolori non voluptas contraria est, sed doloris privatio. Ita enim vivunt quidam, ut eorum vita refellatur oratio. Honesta oratio, Socratica, Platonis etiam. Non enim ipsa genuit hominem, sed accepit a natura inchoatum. Vide, quantum, inquam, fallare, Torquate.
An me, inquis, tam amentem putas, ut apud imperitos isto modo loquar? Si mala non sunt, iacet omnis ratio Peripateticorum. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Hoc non est positum in nostra actione. Mene ergo et Triarium dignos existimas, apud quos turpiter loquare? Nos paucis ad haec additis finem faciamus aliquando; Iam id ipsum absurdum, maximum malum neglegi.
Saepe ab Aristotele, a Theophrasto mirabiliter est laudata per se ipsa rerum scientia; Non igitur de improbo, sed de callido improbo quaerimus, qualis Q. Quorum sine causa fieri nihil putandum est. Ego vero volo in virtute vim esse quam maximam; Aliis esse maiora, illud dubium, ad id, quod summum bonum dicitis, ecquaenam possit fieri accessio. Cur igitur easdem res, inquam, Peripateticis dicentibus verbum nullum est, quod non intellegatur? Equidem etiam Epicurum, in physicis quidem, Democriteum puto. Compensabatur, inquit, cum summis doloribus laetitia. Quid est enim aliud esse versutum?
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sapiens autem semper beatus est et est aliquando in dolore; Et quidem iure fortasse, sed tamen non gravissimum est testimonium multitudinis. Duo Reges: constructio interrete. Quae diligentissime contra Aristonem dicuntur a Chryippo. Sit hoc ultimum bonorum, quod nunc a me defenditur; Nam et a te perfici istam disputationem volo, nec tua mihi oratio longa videri potest. Quicquid enim a sapientia proficiscitur, id continuo debet expletum esse omnibus suis partibus; Invidiosum nomen est, infame, suspectum. Quod si ita sit, cur opera philosophiae sit danda nescio. Atqui eorum nihil est eius generis, ut sit in fine atque extrerno bonorum.
Sed haec omittamus; Egone quaeris, inquit, quid sentiam? Ad eos igitur converte te, quaeso. Hoc dixerit potius Ennius: Nimium boni est, cui nihil est mali. Egone quaeris, inquit, quid sentiam?
Quid est, quod ab ea absolvi et perfici debeat? Tertium autem omnibus aut maximis rebus iis, quae secundum naturam sint, fruentem vivere. Idemque diviserunt naturam hominis in animum et corpus. Satisne vobis videor pro meo iure in vestris auribus commentatus? Audio equidem philosophi vocem, Epicure, sed quid tibi dicendum sit oblitus es. Neque enim civitas in seditione beata esse potest nec in discordia dominorum domus; Ergo id est convenienter naturae vivere, a natura discedere. Equidem, sed audistine modo de Carneade? Stoici autem, quod finem bonorum in una virtute ponunt, similes sunt illorum;
Propter nos enim illam, non propter eam nosmet ipsos diligimus. Quamquam non negatis nos intellegere quid sit voluptas, sed quid ille dicat. Sed non alienum est, quo facilius vis verbi intellegatur, rationem huius verbi faciendi Zenonis exponere. Sic exclusis sententiis reliquorum cum praeterea nulla esse possit, haec antiquorum valeat necesse est. Quantum Aristoxeni ingenium consumptum videmus in musicis? Nosti, credo, illud: Nemo pius est, qui pietatem-; Contemnit enim disserendi elegantiam, confuse loquitur. Polemoni et iam ante Aristoteli ea prima visa sunt, quae paulo ante dixi. Incommoda autem et commoda-ita enim estmata et dustmata appello-communia esse voluerunt, paria noluerunt. Tum Triarius: Posthac quidem, inquit, audacius.